Obama's Choice, FDR or Reagan (or a different president all together)

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Obama's Choice: FDR or Reagan by Patrick J. Buchanan (more by this author)
Posted 01/09/2009 ET



Barack Obama, it is said, will inherit the worst times since the Great Depression. Not to minimize the crisis we are in, but we need a little perspective here.
The Great Depression began with the Great Crash of 1929. By 1931, unemployment had reached 16 percent.
By 1933, 89 percent of stock value had been wiped out, the economy had shrunk by one-third, thousands of banks had closed, a third of the money supply had vanished, and unemployment had reached 25 percent -- among heads of households. And in those days, there was no unemployment insurance, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no Social Security, no welfare.
FDR's answer: vast federal spending, tough new regulations on business and higher taxes -- like Herbert Hoover before him, only more so.
The Depression lasted until war orders from the Allies brought U.S. industry back to life. Before 1940, not once did unemployment fall below 14 percent. In May 1939, Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau testified:
"We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. ... I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt, to boot."
Politically, the New Deal was a smashing success, with FDR's landslides in 1932, 1934 and 1936 virtually wiping out the GOP.
Yet, economically, the New Deal was a bust, failing utterly to restore prosperity. Despite the indoctrination of generations of schoolchildren in New Deal propaganda, that is the hard truth.
Consider, now, how Ronald Reagan responded to the economic crisis of 1980, the worst since the Depression. In the "stagflation" of that Jimmy Carter era, interest rates had reached 21 percent and inflation 13 percent.
Reagan's answer was the tight money policy of Fed Chairman Paul Volcker and across-the-board tax cuts of 25 percent, while slashing the highest rates from 70 percent to 28 percent.
While unemployment hit 10 percent in 1982 and Reagan lost 26 House seats, in 1983 the tax cuts kicked in.
From there on out, it was boom times until Reagan rode off into the sunset, having created 20 million new jobs. "The Seven Fat Years," author Robert Bartley called them.
Reagan had followed the lead of Warren Harding and Cal Coolidge, who had cut Woodrow Wilson's wartime tax rates of near 70 percent to 25 percent, resulting in "The Roaring '20s," a time of unrivaled prosperity.
The JFK tax cuts of the 1960s, also a Reagan model, were equally successful.
Harding, Coolidge, JFK and Reagan all bet on the private sector as the engine of prosperity. All succeeded. Franklin Roosevelt bet on government. And the New Deal failed. It was World War II that pulled the United States out of the Depression ditch of the 1930s.
Comes now the financial collapse and economic crisis of 2008, inherited by Obama, with 40 percent of all stock values wiped out in a year, foreclosures pandemic, and unemployment near 7 percent and surging.
In crafting his solutions, Obama seems to be brushing aside the Reagan, JFK and Harding-Coolidge models, and channeling FDR and the New Deal Democrats.
Already staring at a $1.2 trillion dollar deficit for the year ending Sept. 30, about 8 percent of the entire U.S. economy, Obama intends to add a stimulus package of $700 billion to $1 trillion, yet another 5 percent to 7 percent of gross domestic product. The resulting deficit would be twice as large as Reagan's largest, 6 percent of GDP, which was the largest since World War II.
And how is this Niagara of money to be spent?
Hundreds of billions will go out in checks of $500 to $1,000 to wage-earners and individuals who do not even pay taxes. This is much like the George McGovern "demogrant" program of 1972, where every man, woman and child, if memory serves, was to get a $1,000 check from the U.S. government.
Other hundreds of billions will go to shore up state and municipal spending. Other hundreds of billions will go for "infrastructure" projects, another name for earmarks, which is a synonym for pork.
Now, as Obama does not intend to raise taxes, at least now, he is going to have to borrow this near $2 trillion from foreigners or U.S. taxpayers, or the Fed will have to create the money. Undeniably, this will have an impact upon the economy. But what will that impact be?
Where in history, other than World War II, is there evidence that such a mass infusion of spending restored prosperity?
Obama and the Democrats are taking a historic gamble, not only with their careers but with the country. If this monstrous stimulus package, plus the trillions in hot money, do not work; if the two ignite rampant inflation, rather than real growth, we are all out of options. The toolbox is empty.
And what will follow may truly resemble the 1930s.
 
Obama's Choice: FDR or Reagan by Patrick J. Buchanan (more by this author)
Posted 01/09/2009 ET



Barack Obama, it is said, will inherit the worst times since the Great Depression. Not to minimize the crisis we are in, but we need a little perspective here.
The Great Depression began with the Great Crash of 1929. By 1931, unemployment had reached 16 percent.
By 1933, 89 percent of stock value had been wiped out, the economy had shrunk by one-third, thousands of banks had closed, a third of the money supply had vanished, and unemployment had reached 25 percent -- among heads of households. And in those days, there was no unemployment insurance, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no Social Security, no welfare.
FDR's answer: vast federal spending, tough new regulations on business and higher taxes -- like Herbert Hoover before him, only more so.
The Depression lasted until war orders from the Allies brought U.S. industry back to life. Before 1940, not once did unemployment fall below 14 percent. In May 1939, Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau testified:
"We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. ... I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt, to boot."
Politically, the New Deal was a smashing success, with FDR's landslides in 1932, 1934 and 1936 virtually wiping out the GOP.
Yet, economically, the New Deal was a bust, failing utterly to restore prosperity. Despite the indoctrination of generations of schoolchildren in New Deal propaganda, that is the hard truth.
Consider, now, how Ronald Reagan responded to the economic crisis of 1980, the worst since the Depression. In the "stagflation" of that Jimmy Carter era, interest rates had reached 21 percent and inflation 13 percent.
Reagan's answer was the tight money policy of Fed Chairman Paul Volcker and across-the-board tax cuts of 25 percent, while slashing the highest rates from 70 percent to 28 percent.
While unemployment hit 10 percent in 1982 and Reagan lost 26 House seats, in 1983 the tax cuts kicked in.
From there on out, it was boom times until Reagan rode off into the sunset, having created 20 million new jobs. "The Seven Fat Years," author Robert Bartley called them.
Reagan had followed the lead of Warren Harding and Cal Coolidge, who had cut Woodrow Wilson's wartime tax rates of near 70 percent to 25 percent, resulting in "The Roaring '20s," a time of unrivaled prosperity.
The JFK tax cuts of the 1960s, also a Reagan model, were equally successful.
Harding, Coolidge, JFK and Reagan all bet on the private sector as the engine of prosperity. All succeeded. Franklin Roosevelt bet on government. And the New Deal failed. It was World War II that pulled the United States out of the Depression ditch of the 1930s.
Comes now the financial collapse and economic crisis of 2008, inherited by Obama, with 40 percent of all stock values wiped out in a year, foreclosures pandemic, and unemployment near 7 percent and surging.
In crafting his solutions, Obama seems to be brushing aside the Reagan, JFK and Harding-Coolidge models, and channeling FDR and the New Deal Democrats.
Already staring at a $1.2 trillion dollar deficit for the year ending Sept. 30, about 8 percent of the entire U.S. economy, Obama intends to add a stimulus package of $700 billion to $1 trillion, yet another 5 percent to 7 percent of gross domestic product. The resulting deficit would be twice as large as Reagan's largest, 6 percent of GDP, which was the largest since World War II.
And how is this Niagara of money to be spent?
Hundreds of billions will go out in checks of $500 to $1,000 to wage-earners and individuals who do not even pay taxes. This is much like the George McGovern "demogrant" program of 1972, where every man, woman and child, if memory serves, was to get a $1,000 check from the U.S. government.
Other hundreds of billions will go to shore up state and municipal spending. Other hundreds of billions will go for "infrastructure" projects, another name for earmarks, which is a synonym for pork.
Now, as Obama does not intend to raise taxes, at least now, he is going to have to borrow this near $2 trillion from foreigners or U.S. taxpayers, or the Fed will have to create the money. Undeniably, this will have an impact upon the economy. But what will that impact be?
Where in history, other than World War II, is there evidence that such a mass infusion of spending restored prosperity?
Obama and the Democrats are taking a historic gamble, not only with their careers but with the country. If this monstrous stimulus package, plus the trillions in hot money, do not work; if the two ignite rampant inflation, rather than real growth, we are all out of options. The toolbox is empty.
And what will follow may truly resemble the 1930s.
So, do you just make this shit up as you drift in and out of consciesness? Get a grip. I suppose it's alright to give the bankers and stockbrokers 700 Billion but fuck us the taxpayers. They actually won't be giving us anything anyway, it's just a loan against future payback. I don't see any cure, but again, I'm not an economist. It looks to me like our collective goose is cooked. The economy is like a giant drain that has opened up and we are floating on a cracker, spiraling down towards the opening while the cracker is getting soggier and soggier...................
 
So, do you just make this shit up as you drift in and out of consciesness? Get a grip. I suppose it's alright to give the bankers and stockbrokers 700 Billion but fuck us the taxpayers. They actually won't be giving us anything anyway, it's just a loan against future payback. I don't see any cure, but again, I'm not an economist. It looks to me like our collective goose is cooked. The economy is like a giant drain that has opened up and we are floating on a cracker, spiraling down towards the opening while the cracker is getting soggier and soggier...................

Are you as dense as you seem, Medomao?
 
Yes he is....it's pretty obvious.

It's a little early to say in which President template Obama will be cast. I keep hearing FDR and Kennedy.

For all of our sakes I hope he does not follow their leads, which were horrific in a different way from each other but no less damaging.

He would be wise to follow Reagan, but I don't think he is up to that task. Those are pretty big shoes, almost clown like :lol:. Maybe he can fill Nancy Reagans shoes.....maybe.


out. :blsmoke:
 
So, do you just make this shit up as you drift in and out of consciesness? Get a grip. I suppose it's alright to give the bankers and stockbrokers 700 Billion but fuck us the taxpayers. They actually won't be giving us anything anyway, it's just a loan against future payback. I don't see any cure, but again, I'm not an economist. It looks to me like our collective goose is cooked. The economy is like a giant drain that has opened up and we are floating on a cracker, spiraling down towards the opening while the cracker is getting soggier and soggier...................

Welcome to the American brand of a combo of fascism and Marxism, Med. Isn't this exactly what you've been promoting and hoping for?

Vi
 
Geeze, it used to be just the three stooges, Vi, TBT, and Jax. Now a fourth stooge has entered the arena with the commie baiting bullshit. Welcome spitzered, or I guess we'll just call hin Spitz. Welcome to the insane asylum of retarded fascists like the above trio. Now you too can post commie hating bullshit as if you even had a clue. Just your average dunce fuckalong. Whooo, Whooo!
 
All you can do is name call Med Man. A true mark of your maturity level. Unfortunately, it's right down their with your worldviews...... dazed and confused....... a hooked fish. keep thrashing buddy. :peace:



out. :blsmoke:
 
All you can do is name call Med Man. A true mark of your maturity level. Unfortunately, it's right down their with your worldviews...... dazed and confused....... a hooked fish. keep thrashing buddy. :peace:



out. :blsmoke:
Thrashing you and your fascist buddies is what I live for. Your Ideas are the real confusion on this site. Sometimes I actually feel sorry for you and your buddies, then I wake up. It's people of your ilk that further the oppression of common people accross the globe. Supporters of the corporate greed mongers that run things on planet earth. When it is all said and done, (Near future) it will be you and your buddies that will be begging for mercy. You and your buddies deny global warming. Deny the thrashing of planet earth, just so you can continue to live in your oppulent lifestyle. Anyone that supported the bush regime is fucking insane, I guess that include you and your buddies, eh?
 
Thrashing you and your fascist buddies is what I live for. Your Ideas are the real confusion on this site. Sometimes I actually feel sorry for you and your buddies, then I wake up. It's people of your ilk that further the oppression of common people accross the globe. Supporters of the corporate greed mongers that run things on planet earth. When it is all said and done, (Near future) it will be you and your buddies that will be begging for mercy. You and your buddies deny global warming. Deny the thrashing of planet earth, just so you can continue to live in your oppulent lifestyle. Anyone that supported the bush regime is fucking insane, I guess that include you and your buddies, eh?

Common people around the globe?

Lol, then you should be grateful that you are in the United States, where the common person is so far above the majority of the world that it's not even funny.

Or maybe you wish you lived in India so you could bathe in whatever river they have there?

Or maybe mexico, with its corruption?

Or China?

Or France?

Surely, you can't object to being in France, where in order to make sure that everyone has equal opportunity and equal outcome they tax the shit out of everyone and pay for everything?

Medomao, you should count your blessings that you aren't forced to suck on the government's nipple, you wouldn't have half the wealth you have now if you were being forced trying to get milk out of Uncle Sam.

Instead of being able to suckle on Lady Liberty's sweet bosom.
 
Common people around the globe?

Lol, then you should be grateful that you are in the United States, where the common person is so far above the majority of the world that it's not even funny.

Or maybe you wish you lived in India so you could bathe in whatever river they have there?

Or maybe mexico, with its corruption?

Or China?

Or France?

Surely, you can't object to being in France, where in order to make sure that everyone has equal opportunity and equal outcome they tax the shit out of everyone and pay for everything?

Medomao, you should count your blessings that you aren't forced to suck on the government's nipple, you wouldn't have half the wealth you have now if you were being forced trying to get milk out of Uncle Sam.

Instead of being able to suckle on Lady Liberty's sweet bosom.
See, what you don't get is, we, the United states government, is responsible for most of the squalor on the planet. By supporting dictatorships accross the globe for the benefit of US corporations; IE raping their natural resources and cheap labor, we have contributed to poverty world wide. The situation is coming home to haunt us now, all because of the greed of people like you. I realize that you don't give a damn as long as you have yours, but that is the real situation, so dream on.
 
See, what you don't get is, we, the United states government, is responsible for most of the squalor on the planet. By supporting dictatorships accross the globe for the benefit of US corporations; IE raping their natural resources and cheap labor, we have contributed to poverty world wide. The situation is coming home to haunt us now, all because of the greed of people like you. I realize that you don't give a damn as long as you have yours, but that is the real situation, so dream on.

They can't pay me enough to give a damn, and they have their own governments to regulate what corporations do. It is not my responsibility, and as I do not control what corporations do, except through the most indirect means, I can not be held accountable for what they do.

Not to mention the fact that in many of those countries the alternatives between the corporations establishing themselves there or not, would be starvation, squalor, and other undesirable things that make the intrusion of corporations into those countries look very attractive by comparison.

Perhaps you want to live in India, with its 800 Million people that are impoverished, malnourished, and barely able to afford enough food to feed themselves. Go Medomao, go bathe in the Ganges River.

And while you are doing that, perhaps you'd care to stop and ask the Indians what they think of the corporations, and their jobs.

Don't forget to stop in China while you're at it, and ask them what they think.
 
They can't pay me enough to give a damn, and they have their own governments to regulate what corporations do. It is not my responsibility, and as I do not control what corporations do, except through the most indirect means, I can not be held accountable for what they do.

Not to mention the fact that in many of those countries the alternatives between the corporations establishing themselves there or not, would be starvation, squalor, and other undesirable things that make the intrusion of corporations into those countries look very attractive by comparison.

Perhaps you want to live in India, with its 800 Million people that are impoverished, malnourished, and barely able to afford enough food to feed themselves. Go Medomao, go bathe in the Ganges River.

And while you are doing that, perhaps you'd care to stop and ask the Indians what they think of the corporations, and their jobs.

Don't forget to stop in China while you're at it, and ask them what they think.
That is definently one world order talking right there. You have just opened up your personal responsibility for squalor, as in "I don't give a damn". It is because of greedy fucks like you that this squalor is allowed to continue. Stand up and give a damn for once in your pathetic life. Care, care for something besides yourself. It is exhilarating. I'll be waiting for an "I Care", ~LOL~, yeah right.
 
That is definently one world order talking right there. You have just opened up your personal responsibility for squalor, as in "I don't give a damn". It is because of greedy fucks like you that this squalor is allowed to continue. Stand up and give a damn for once in your pathetic life. Care, care for something besides yourself. It is exhilarating. I'll be waiting for an "I Care", ~LOL~, yeah right.

Sorry, all out of I Care, government took that when they stole my money.
 
I'm personally tired of hearing about the One World Order. Like that's EVER going to happen..... in any ideology.

I'm just glad when they remember to give me my fries with my Big Mac order.

out. :blsmoke:
 
Hey, great idea that Med-'O-Mao has. I truly cannot believe the depth of the man's thinking. Zowie!

Let's end the squaller in India by dissolving American corporations that do business there. Yeppers, let's have all of those Indian folks working in American corporations give up those "cheap labor" jobs and go back to rummaging through the dumps in Calcutta in order to eke out a living. Let's eliminate the corporations doing business in China too. What the hell, if all the modern skyscrapers in Beijing are turned into rubble, so what? After all, those Chinese people wouldn't mind scrapping their BMWs and going back to rickshaws and bicycles. Oh, and then we have the South Koreans ... let them go back to the rice paddies they came from. No more Korean electronics, cars and other EXCELLENT products they export throughout the world. The Koreans are getting too fat anyway ... completely the opposite of their more fit neighbors to the North. Screw the corporations. Yep, capitalism is truly a fucked system. bongsmilie


Vi
 
I'm willing to bet that if McCain won the election and used the exact same plan, none of these guys would have anything to say about it... When a conservative republican does this stuff it's GOLD! But when the democrats do, it's the spawn of SATAN! Can't you take off your goggles for a second and get past the 2 party system?

That was the reaction I got anyway, totally praising Reagan, JFK, Harding and Coolidge for what they had done, did you throw in JFK so it wouldn't look suspicious (not directed at you TBT, at the author of the article)? As if they never fucked up on anything...

Also, reading through this thread, I gotta agree with Med, because of our policies and the way our government does shit, people are in poverty all over the world, and a lot of us here at home aren't living the American dream either. While you can say it's better than everywhere else in the world, which it isn't, this place does have it's flaws, and they're huge. Shit that could bring the country to an end as we know it if nothing changes. So the attitudes some of you guys have regarding the rest of the worlds citizens is disgusting to say the least, instead of saying something like "well why don't you go move to India and bathe in the rivers they have there if you don't like it so much!" why not ask "how would I like it if that was me?"
 
I have come to find out we are going to do a lot worse this year than any other year we had in the past.


seems cuz some assholes in government allowed people who couldnt afford it get homes and they were all forclosed on seems, Me and my familiy will have a rough year and our goals for ourselves and our children have to be put on hold.


Problem is, things may spiral out of control if we cant get enough loan to keep the company going

you can count on 14 more people on the unemployment line if that happens


maybe doing charity work is fine, but when u interfear with peoples lives and livlyhoods in the process, I think it is not only completely fucked, but incredibly stupid
 
I'm willing to bet that if McCain won the election and used the exact same plan, none of these guys would have anything to say about it... When a conservative republican does this stuff it's GOLD!

No need to say anything further, Pada. If you honestly believe that McCain is a "conservative," then you have shown your cards to the entire table. :lol:

Vi
 
Back
Top