Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
mayan microzyme, $20 for 4oz? i'm not hating but i don't love it...
that is why i mentioned the matrix first. i've only been working with the mayan for two rounds. i've found nothing else like it though; encapsulated and shelf stable microbe starter. it is not a nutrient that you just add to your res.

and this is where having a community helps, we get the bigger bottle and split it three ways.

one tsp/gallon goes a long way with this stuff. i don't use the listed strength (tbsp/gal) because i'm on a budget, i make sure to let it brew really well and feed it gradually to compensate.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Looking for feedback about my picts and video uploads...c'mon friends. How's the blackberry kush look? No comments on the "NO COUGH" videos?
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Matt - can you explain to me how N, P and K and the other 14 essential macro and micro nutrients are different to a plant when they're coming from the your vegan source as apposed to being mined from the earth an put into a synthetic form?
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Blah blah blah. Lot of talk and that's it. Put up or shut up.
Well? Pictures posted, more theory, videos posted of the "no-cough" vegan smoke. And you can go to kushman's facebook page (not an ad, just a suggestion for eye candy) if you want to see what it looks like in vegan-organic kushland.
 

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
again, this is all hoopla until it's proven, and really you have to try it for yourself. for me, it's too expensive, bottom line, unless you work really hard at going about it cheaply. i have my proven methods and products, i can maybe add and or replace a few based on this thread.

it's like vegan living, it's all good, but fucking expensive at times.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Matt - can you explain to me how N, P and K and the other 14 essential macro and micro nutrients are different to a plant when they're coming from the your vegan source as apposed to being mined from the earth an put into a synthetic form?
Well, it's a good thing I double majored in Chem and Bio. Life is about more than just elements...

Yes, I can explain on a molecular level why vegan organics is superior to traditional organics (edit:whoops you asked about chem), but it gets pretty crazy and theoretical (sub-atomic particle and electron spinning...) so that will have to wait for a full answer.

The short answer is that you are missing the point altogether, which is: I'm concerned about way more than the basics elements. I'm thinking about environmental issues with animal products, heavy metal accumulation from higher trophic level's wastes, herb grown for anyone (including those who choose to be vegetarian or vegan in their lives), creating an advanced form of indoor gardening specifically for the medical dispenaries here.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
again, this is all hoopla until it's proven, and really you have to try it for yourself. for me, it's too expensive, bottom line, unless you work really hard at going about it cheaply. i have my proven methods and products, i can maybe add and or replace a few based on this thread.

it's like vegan living, it's all good, but fucking expensive at times.
I tried vegan living, it didn't feel right so I stopped.
I tried vegan horticulture, it felt better than ever before (and I worked at a top dispensary here in Cali and tried EVERYTHING).

BEST THREAD CONTRIBUTER EVER! Thanks man.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Matt - can you explain to me how N, P and K and the other 14 essential macro and micro nutrients are different to a plant when they're coming from the your vegan source as apposed to being mined from the earth an put into a synthetic form?
Really, synthetics versus organics? in the organics forum? by someone called "homebrewer"...maybe he brews beer ;)...google it friend.
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Yes, I can explain on a molecular level why vegan organics is superior to traditional organics, but it gets pretty crazy and theoretical (sub-atomic particle and electron spinning...) so that will have to wait for a full answer.
Great, I'm looking forward to that answer. Should I check back in a few hours?
 

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
get into it as deep as possible, i want all the theoretical babel.

btw, synthetics destroy microbes, they may be the right elements, but they have added effects. with that in mind, maybe reducing the amount of damage, and increasing the life is the way to go; with the obvious, accurate amount of natural NPK
 

Nullis

Moderator
I use Mayan Microzyme (have to start aerating some today, in fact) but it is not actually a plant food. It is a bacterial-enzymatic complex, containing non-pathogenic aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that assist in biological nitrogen fixation, nutrient mineralization, breakdown of salts, increase in soil organic matter, enhanced nutrient uptake, produces hydrogen to regulate pH, etc. So it will allow for reduced fertilizer applications (especially those containing nitrogen), but you still must supply some kind of micro-nutrient formulation or ensure sufficient materials are worked into the soil which are capable of providing those nutrients.

First of all, you should maybe consider not being so defensive (and erratic). Not everybody here is 'hating', especially not myself. What I am saying is that much of what you are saying is something of a ridiculously extremist approach to organic gardening. It can be as simple or as complicated as one wants to make it. I feel that 'beginners' may glean more by educating themselves as best they can over a period of time; throughout which they could be using commonly available, less expensive and still fully organic materials including things like feather meal, poultry manure, guanos, and even blood, bone and fish meals. As the depth of knowledge increases, so can their customization of the components they use.
To exclude animal (herbivore) derived nutrients seems a lot like a rash over-reaction to me. Cannabis grown with such fertilizers, if grown properly should smoke just as clean and smoothly, and taste just as good. If it does not, one reason could be because you've convinced yourself something alone the lines: "oh no! this bud wasn't grown veganically *cough* *cough*".

Biomagnification is a problem that we humans introduced to the environment in the first place. Even so, it hardly applies to such things as poultry manure and bat guano. The most affected animals are the predators at the top of the food chain, not the primary consumers of the second trophic level. The problem is that substances that would biomagnify, such as chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides like DDT, have long elimination half-lives and high lipid solubility (as well as being sparingly/not soluble in water). Thus, a compound like DDT can enter an organism from its environment, even if levels are low. The compound is not eliminated from the organism, and it is eaten by a predator. Except the predator will eat several of these organisms, not just one or two. Whatever DDT was in those organisms is now inside of the predator, where it will be transferred and stay trapped in adipose (fat) tissues. This predator also happens to be prey for another carnivore, that will again eat several of such animals. Whatever DDT had accumulated in the fatty tissue of the original predators (turned prey) now ends up being transferred and trapped in the fat tissue of whatever is higher in the food chain; so on and so fourth and DDT levels skyrocket many times over as we move up the food chain.
This is practically a non-issue for primary consumers (chickens, cows, bats, horses), which are almost at the bottom of the food chain and only eat plant matter having virtually zero fat content.
 

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
do you use gravity or bushmaster? anything like that...

i've heard fucked up things about bushmaster, but i kind of want to try gravity
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
ridiculously extremist approach to organic gardening. It can be as simple or as complicated as one wants to make it. I feel that 'beginners' may glean more by educating themselves as best they can over a period of time;
Each newb gets to travel their own path to enlightenment...as it should be. But yeah, experience helps. Vegan organic hort is not complex at all. I would argue that it is more simple. No pHing, No ppm, healthier plants are easier to care for. Plus, no washing up after...and more and more vegan lines are becoming available.

I do not exclude herbivore excrement indiscriminately. My point is: think about your sourcing! Home-made castings; awesome! Horse crap from organically fed horses; sounds great! But birds are generally not discriminate eaters, and tropical islands can also be giant refuse sites.

My other point is: in nature; plants are fed mostly by microbial life in the rhizosphere. Again, the majority of plant nutrition comes from symbiotic (and free living) bacteria/fungi in the soil. The beautiful part of this relationship that no one talks about is what the microbes get from the plants. It is a give/take relationship, that makes both microbes and plant more resistant to pathogens. these bacteria and fungi feed primarily off of broken down plant matter. YES, there is animal matter (of all sorts) in nature, and rock minerals too! but soil is more plant than poop.

simplified: poop minus nutrient content equals residue (we'll call is poop-shell for fun). fermented plant extracts minus nutrient content equals nothing.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
do you use gravity or bushmaster? anything like that...

i've heard fucked up things about bushmaster, but i kind of want to try gravity
Have not tried either of those. I just use bioboost, and nature's nectar for P, and technaflora seaweed for K. YES, nature's nectars P is not plant based. SEE, I'm not a strictly vegan gardener.

I don't have to explain to that one guy the difference between chem and organics do I? I'm sure it has been examined at length on here somewhere...back to PLANT BASED ORGANIC HORTICULTURE!
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
get into it as deep as possible, i want all the theoretical babel.

btw, synthetics destroy microbes, they may be the right elements, but they have added effects. with that in mind, maybe reducing the amount of damage, and increasing the life is the way to go; with the obvious, accurate amount of natural NPK
YEAH! Someone who, obviously, cares more about highest quality and natural systems, than how many grams per watt per day. More life! Good vibes!
I assumed this was the place to talk about expensive new products and new schools of thought in the canna-hort world. The angry home-made energy took me by surprise, but I should relax.
HB- I don't want to get into synthetics in the organics forum...BOOO HISS

Plant based theoretical babble to come.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
So a little babble about feeding your microbes molasses (or whatever you use), which I know I'm going to get called out for. Just part of what I'm into, not technically a vegan thing.

The relationship between plants and microbes are symbiotic. The microbes do all sorts of things in the rhizosphere, we don't have to cover all that. Simplified: the microbes/fungi feed the roots and, in a way, expand the root surface area exponentially. The plants in turn feed the fungi/mirobes with photosynthetic products, that is the other side to this symbiotic relationship.

Normally, in nature, that is beautiful: ying-yang, give-take, natural cycle of things. But in our indoor container environments, I will argue (technical for IMO), that feeding the microbes directly allows the plant to keep more of its photosynthetic products for itself. This allows the plant to benefit from the symbiotic relationship without forcing it to give back it's fair share. Discuss ;)
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
funny line i use every public speaking occasion: "you want to know the truth, try it yourself. if you put five growers in one room and ask them how to grow weed you will get ten answers."

PLANT BASED ORGANICS!
 

upthearsenal

Well-Known Member
right, feeding your microbes directly, you argue that they get less in return from the plant in an indoor environment, but HOW do you argue this? to me, even if you have more microbes the plant will still give back accordingly.
 
Top