What LED is the best value in terms of cost/yield/service life?
- Thread starter BlueDreamDispensary
- Start date
Yeah I get that but if your going so cheap with the led that it outputs less than the hps your just wasting money and adding unneeded heat. If you want led just buy the good stuff or diy good light. It's just stupid to buy an led that will do worse than hps. For complete fixture to fill a 4x4 you have to spend at least $800
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Well I guess we can disagree.
If you want spectrum imo, CMH is where it's at. Like I said, LED has no 480nm and no UVB, no IR. If I'm going to spend $800+ and still be delinquent then thats a big problem for me.
Ill spend my $35 initially + $7/mo extra, and be fine with 14oz +/- in a 2x4.
Makes little sense to me to spend $800 intially to save $14/mo when I gain 0 in spectrum or intensity.
Let's do some math.
Initial cost delta:
Scale $35 for 2x4, to $70 for a 4x4
$800 - ($35 * 2) = $730
Time to break even:
$730 / ($14/mo) = 52 months
52 months / (12months/yr) = 4.3yrs
So if I ran everyday for 4.25yrs+ I'd finally break even, but I don't even grow year round. You do you, but when the topic of cost to yield comes up I personally think most LED guys are over paying exorbitantly. I could go HPS for about same effeciency but HPS is super bulky and doesn't have even distribution and spectrum semi-tuneability (screw differrent CCT bulbs in, I mix 6500k and 3000k and reptile bulbs) like I have with my E27 setup. Also HPS bulb intensity drops and needs replacing. In my setup I don't have to add heat to increase air temps like many LED growers (in fact I can keep CO2 levels up higher with higher exhaust rates as opposed to cutting exhaust to increase air temps) that deal with cal Mg or LED defeciencies, and I've got much more IR than other LED lights which they are finding more and more that the plant is able to use and wants. Spend $400+ to save $7?... Na, not for me yet, I'll wait till prices drop and effeciency goes up. Hard to believe I'm losing out on any yield, so $7/mo savings just isn't the draw for me, yet.
@ttystikk
14oz @ 535w = 0.73g/w
14oz @ 300w = 1.3gpw
Spending $400 (assuming half of 4x4 cost) initially and then waiting 4.25yrs+ to finally be able to realize a savings of $7/mo (if I grew year round), and all just to say I have a better gpw, doesn't mean much to me.
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JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Lol the truth is deafening. If that was directed at me I can only imagine that I've ruffled feathers explaining how outrageous LED lights really are on a yield per cost basis. Sorry, not sorry. This is a cannibus growing site, not LED elitist asshole place to dupe unsuspecting buyers. The facts stand. Piss in the wind all you want.
So you proved my point that hps is better?
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
I need total quiet in my grow area. I use 600 watts of cobs and only move around 100 cfm of air with a 4" exhaust system. I couldn't take the noise from a system moving enough air for cmh or other "hot" types of light. My heat is spread out over two 40" x 10" heat sinks. The area is around 44"x44". I'd love to try cmh but just couldn't deal with the noise from a higher volume of air movement. I have people all the time over with nothing but an insulated wall between them and the area. But no doubt led is more expensive.
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Lol did I? My brand new cheap LED setup cost less than half of the cheapest brand new HPS setup, and maybe about same as a used HPS + ballast + hood.
At same effeciency and comparable cost to used HPS, new but cheap LED has better spectrum, light spread, and no HPS replacement bulb to deal with. I'm saying that cheap LED can be even better than HPS when talking cost vs yield, but that HPS is probably a close second for me.
I think CMH is great and that high end LED can be great too (though typically costs even more $$$ to widen the high end LED spectrum to be comparable to CMH). I also think low end LED and HPS can work very well too.
I think what's best is situational. Maybe some pay more than $0.10/kWh, so paying a bit more upfront can make a big difference down the road. Maybe you're just starting out so keeping initial costs low are important. Maybe head room is a factor, ect ect. For me I can't be bothered with anything else but the cheapest wide spectrum initial cost light, because my electric is cheap and the results are good.
Yeah what's your real wattage?
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
The 30w bulbs run about 28 true watts each. The 535w figure came from a kilowatt meter I had the lights plugged into. 19 bulbs.
Those bulbs are like $25 each online and at home Depot how did you get them so cheap?
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
eBay
I've bought from a couple different vendors. The 100x offering is gone atm.
Here's the link for the purchases that were only 20 bulbs a piece.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Bulb-Lighting-E27-SMD-5W-10W-15W-20W-25W-30W-Energy-Saving-Globe-Lamp-AC110V/282719225658?
The prices jump around quite a bit and if they were expensive at the time I was looking then I'd give them a week or so and catch em when they were lower. Some sort of pricing algo I think. Says 30w are out-of-stock and prices on 20w are high atm. ($51/20)
I think Getian COBs are pretty cheap and edge HPS in effeciency (I think 165lm/w in 3500k?), maybe look into them if you're searching for low cost LED that need drivers. Looks like 600w - 1000w runs about $120 pre shipping and not including drivers or heatsinks.
https://m.alibaba.com/product/62122085589/detail.html?spm=a277m.product-list.0.0
Im not sure what the driverless COBs push in terms of umol/j but maybe they are similar in effeciency and price to the e27 I've been using. I believe the 2835 that the e27 are populated with are Luxeon 2835c or 2835e (6v).
I haven't been able to track down any other 6v 2835 chips. If they truly are Luxeon 2835C I think that I got a pretty good deal.
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ANC
Well-Known Member
I can build 3 320 LED fixtures for the money of 2 315cmhs with bulbs over here...
The only way my weed tastes better is with sunlight, I'm not going to pay half extra for an imagined extra few grams.
Also, my room is virtually silent, the noisiest thing in it is the tiny dehumidifier, pulling 360w, I might run the AC for an hour a day to adjust things before lights out.
NO way you could get me to set up all the loud gear for growing with incandescent stuff again.
I'm not against the concept of checkerboarding the two types in one room though.
The only way my weed tastes better is with sunlight, I'm not going to pay half extra for an imagined extra few grams.
Also, my room is virtually silent, the noisiest thing in it is the tiny dehumidifier, pulling 360w, I might run the AC for an hour a day to adjust things before lights out.
NO way you could get me to set up all the loud gear for growing with incandescent stuff again.
I'm not against the concept of checkerboarding the two types in one room though.
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Ya, 2 315s here costs $260 for everything. If you can build 960w of LED with drivers for $260 ($0.27/w), I think that's pretty damn good, and better than than I could do if I went the LED + aftermarket driver route. 3 320h's would cost me $240 alone.
I'm at $0.065/w initial cost. Add the reptile bulb cost to that and I'm close to 300nm - 700nm continuous emission and $0.09/w initial cost.
Disregarding operating cost, beyond cheap LED, the next cheapest initial cost best-spectrum light imo is CMH. Bringing operating costs back into the equation CMH is about 2.0umol/j but 280-800+. I have yet to see a true life tested 2.0umol/j LED or LED fluoro combo with continuous emission from 280-800 at $0.41/w initial cost. If I did care about operating costs I doubt I could match CMH spectrum and beat 2.0umol/j in a cheap LED build. I'd probably have to spend a decent chunk in a high end LED rig. Then itd go back to being an 'initial cost vs time to break even' thing (if yields were comparable).
Edit- the next cheapest initial cost best-spectrum light might actually be (HPS + fluoro UV combo) at about $0.19/w initial cost, not CMH at about $0.41/w initial cost.
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JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Thats really expensive.
This one is $130 shipped
https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m68772248103/?
Though sounds like for your situation CMH is definitely NOT the way to go lol, fan noise, ect. It's not for me either.
FYI, you don't need 10ft ceilings for 315s.
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So what is all that extra IR and UV light doing for your plants that a good cob or quantum board setup won't do? What is it about IR you like,how it heats up the walls and floor?
Cob grown 20 days to go
