OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
i think the poster is very fortunate you politely gave him an answer
after he was such a sarcastic knowitall
after he was such a sarcastic knowitall
I gotta admit that sounds bold,1.25 from 8ft2 or 2.5 from 16ft2? There are limits to yield per sq ft regardless the light you use (yield/μmol is not a linear scale). What are you getting exactly if you don't mind?I dont know what is so impossible with this, weve been in this ballpark with 2700k 90cri strips. A bit more yield, and a bit more area so probably not quite there but defo in the ballpark. And that was using 12x 12$ strips on a hlg240 but with some side light from the adjacent trays.
Caveats: High yielding 11 week genetics and tons of gasheating/Co2.
G/w isnt a good measure anymore.
As for the initial question: id propose building a light based on bridgelux Vesta strips, 2 strips per alu u-channel, 12 strips to a 4x2 on a hlg240-48A.
Cheap, great distribution of light, excellent spectrum options and most importantly you can hang it very close to your cannopy. Hanging height is where you lose most of your watts.
How about an actual figure?I dont know what is so impossible with this, weve been in this ballpark with 2700k 90cri strips. A bit more yield, and a bit more area so probably not quite there but defo in the ballpark. And that was using 12x 12$ strips on a hlg240 but with some side light from the adjacent trays.
Caveats: High yielding 11 week genetics and tons of gasheating/Co2.
G/w isnt a good measure anymore.
How about an actual figure?
Same ballpark, but not quite there... Lol
I think we'd call that, "about a pound"
Gpw being overated was my whole point.
Buy or build whatever you want, at the end of the day it comes down to how many photons are created regardless the light tech. The vesta build I'm sure will produce lots of photons.
Hi bartow , can you advise me on reasonable led setup mainly for veg ,cheers jThere are folks who use cheap Chinese Led lights. I am one of them. I have used them for just over a year. My take on them after having used them is that they are much better than their critics say they are. For vegetative they are extraordinary.
I did have a small problem with them in flowering. It turns out that the lights were not the problem. Led lights seem to pull up a lot more water. I was given them the same amount of water I did when I was using CFLs. My yields have started improving since going with more watering. No harvest yet with more water but the plants are looking better. Not just with growing but with everything else, with electronics, the difference in quality is seldom as much as the difference in price. So, I start cheap if in doubt.
4200g from 6 x1m trays in an aisle. Cannopy was about 1.1 wide. 6x hlg240 3xhlg185, works out around +2 ounce/sq foot i think. This tray was the best but i think it wasnt weighed separately. Lit mostly buy 1 maxed out hlg240 running 12 vestas, warm white channel. Some side light but only from one side.I gotta admit that sounds bold,1.25 from 8ft2 or 2.5 from 16ft2? There are limits to yield per sq ft regardless the light you use (yield/μmol is not a linear scale). What are you getting exactly if you don't mind?
The best I've ever gotten was a bit over 30 zips from a 4×4 area if I'm remembering correctly, but that was slamming it with 1000W HPS and 6ft tall plants. Not saying it can't happen, because like you said genetics, grower skill and luck is big part, but that seems pretty unrealistic to me. And I don't think @JSheeze was using any CO2? Not really fair comparison imo.
I like your light Jsheeze, lol 535W for 35 is ridiculous! btw nice buds
@BlueDreamDispensary , I second the vesta strip build.
I calculate 2.11oz/ft2, that's insane, and at 2.1gpw, I've never seen that. That's over 2lbs+ from a 4x4 with only 450W, can't help but be a bit skeptical but good work if that's legit.4200g from 6 x1m trays in an aisle. Cannopy was about 1.1 wide. 6x hlg240 3xhlg185, works out around +2 ounce/sq foot i think. This tray was the best but i think it wasnt weighed separately. Lit mostly buy 1 maxed out hlg240 running 12 vestas, warm white channel. Some side light but only from one side.
Its the grow i consult with so im not taking credit for it, but my growbuddy is happy with his investment.
It was just a bumper crop, even the hps side did 600/ 1g/w over 8 trays. Day and night burning butane. Loads of Co2. But it was just his second try with led so i refuse to believe we cant do better, you could see that the plants could have done even better.
This next one is our last and dont look as good as the last one.
Lol those are some unbelievable numbers, and still not 2.5lbs from a 4x4 or 20oz from a 2x4, and I didn't use CO2. Do you think you could have gotten 25% more per area? Sounds like you were to the max as is..4200g from 6 x1m trays in an aisle. Cannopy was about 1.1 wide. 6x hlg240 3xhlg185, works out around +2 ounce/sq foot i think. This tray was the best but i think it wasnt weighed separately. Lit mostly buy 1 maxed out hlg240 running 12 vestas, warm white channel. Some side light but only from one side.
Its the grow i consult with so im not taking credit for it, but my growbuddy is happy with his investment.
It was just a bumper crop, even the hps side did 600/ 1g/w over 8 trays. Day and night burning butane. Loads of Co2. But it was just his second try with led so i refuse to believe we cant do better, you could see that the plants could have done even better.
This next one is our last and dont look as good as the last one.
The g/w is probably a bit high here as youre counting board watts. Also, the 185 is speced at 200, but generally gives more.I calculate 2.11oz/ft2, that's insane, and at 2.1gpw, I've never seen that. That's over 2lbs+ from a 4x4 with only 450W, can't help but be a bit skeptical but good work if that's legit.
EDIT:
I forgot about CO2. Maybe I just need to up my game lol, I'm normally happy with 1.5ish out of a 4x4.
Ya but if you're 6-8" from canopy you're not getting the "deeper" canopy.I know, we didnt believe it until we saw it weighed out. But please guys, remember im not trying to take some master grower credits for this. I did lighting and figured out how to integrate this grow space in the facility and im proud over increasing my buddys totals, cause this space wasnt usuable until we rekitted it. But the numbers belong to my buddy, not me. Id be happy to give more background. But im not getting into any dick measuring, mine is not in this fight.
I also congratulate anyone hitting numbers like these, especially with hps. 2 per foot of hps buds looks insanely much and defo gives the feel that you maxed you crop out.
But our led side was very dense, about half the volume per weight than hps side.
I also stress 11 week strain that keeps on putting on weight till the end. And one tank of butane every 3 days for our gas heater.
Could the plants do more? On this grow yeah. A bit deeper cannopy or even some side lighting. But side lighting would alter g/w.
The g/w is probably a bit high here as youre counting board watts. Also, the 185 is speced at 200, but generally gives more.
If we were actually going broke for records id probably have a bit better documentation. The point im making is that this just kinda happened to us, there wasnt any new extra effort done. So yeah, same ball park. And no, i i dont think its so hard if we did it on our second real monocrop with led.
G/w: quite irrelevant now with led, as efficiency is getting better and this measure doesnt factor in the most important waste of wattage: hanging height/form factor.
If you can get your lights even and right down on the cannopy, 6-8", and maintain an even "just under the bulb" intensity all across your cannopy, really is 2zips/foot that hard to believe? Its kinda normal on that bit just under your hps. At least around here
I can tell you what I do but I am not a world class grower. For vegetative I just put plants under two Chinese lights that claim to be 1000w. Of course they don't draw nearly that much. Basically, I use 1 light per plant. That sounds extravagant but each one of the lights total costs not more than the bulbs alone I was using with T5s.Hi bartow , can you advise me on reasonable led setup mainly for veg ,cheers j
30 ounces from a single ended 600 watt HPS in a 4x4.
View attachment 4349244
Or 18 ounces from 260 watts of LED's in a 3x4 area.
View attachment 4349245
Or this mornings upload to YouTube
Hard to believe. I know, i have been challenged on this grow before and i appreciate that you trust those numbers. But in the end they aint mine, theyre my buddys. He wont let me post pics (comercial and very "red" situation), but this run being the last he might change his mind. Maybe over pms i dunno. If i get them, ill get them to you.Ya but if you're 6-8" from canopy you're not getting the "deeper" canopy.
It is hard for me to believe but you're credible so Ill take your word for it. What you mentioned about density could definitely have a huge impact along with luck strain and CO2. Ime we were happy w 1.5, if luck was on our side we'd hit close to 2 and at 1000W of 2.0μmol/J primarily in the most responsive WV range for cannibus. HPS is void of blue but they've done studies that show HPS outyield LED on a per 450μmol/m2/s basis.
HID has better "holding power" due to the height its hung, so to say you can get better PPFD deeper in the canopy vs a higher hung light that's hitting same canopy PPFD I think may be questionable.
Did you alter SPD? Expand it or supplement?
EDIT:
HPS SPD in chart attached all scrunched up in the top left corner, but you can see where it's hitting, 550nm - 650nm, then check the YPF graph
View attachment 4349229
Stellar, very nice garden.30 ounces from a single ended 600 watt HPS in a 4x4.
View attachment 4349244
Or 18 ounces from 260 watts of LED's in a 3x4 area.
View attachment 4349245
Or this mornings upload to YouTube
No it wasn't. You were the one who actually mentioned a g/W metric.Gpw being overated was my whole point.
That's what I pay. And he did a cost analysis if you missed it. He said 4yrs plus with continual operation and 8yrs at his current rate. Also when comparing cost per light you'd equate yield, to the point that you'd just buy more of the less efficient source required for the same yield, then measure ROI, there is no such thing as "lost revenue" then.Also $0.10 per kwh is extremely low. Don't pretend that that is a normal price for everyone. But even then the ROI is not determined by that $35 alone. You need to factor in the electricity and that's still a massive amount more than that $35. If you go for an investment period of 3 years then the electricity would still be over tenfold that. And if you yield say 10% less per m2, then the "cost" (lost revenue) of that could be a hundred times that $35 "investment".