What LED is the best value in terms of cost/yield/service life?

Glovelove said:

So what is all that extra IR and UV light doing for your plants that a good cob or quantum board setup won't do? What is it about IR you like,how it heats up the walls and floor?
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Cob grown 20 days to go

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HA! Look into LST and IR. Short answer, the plant responds to 700+

UVB? Ya, look into that too, short answer, more THC.

Idk why the lower buds seem to get so frosty, but here's some more shots (2-3wks before chop), I'm pretty happy with the results at $35 or $0.09/W.





If you're getting frost like you've got, and without already adding UVB, then you've some good genetics (mine were barneys farm), but then Id also definitely suggest at least adding a $9 reptile bulb or 2 on top (there are several options). Trust me, you won't be disappointed, it's more potent.

The only thing I've said and will continue to say, is that cheap LED has the greatest (total yield)/(initial cost) ratio out of any source of artificial light. And that the 4yr+ wait to finally save $7/mo is not worth it for me.

Just curious, what is the price of your COB setup per 14oz worth of harvest, or a 2x4 area? Nice bud btw

Used every type of lamp you can imagine except plasma,its all relative to the growers skill lol. So you can definitely tell us without a doubt uv and ir give you more thc so higher test numbers? Because in my world testing is now mandatory and those things do not occur. Still to this day my highest test numbers come from directly under the cob/quantum fixture I made.
Spent about 4200.00 on my initial DIY setups and pulled north of 20k product from the first 9 week harvest. You would have to break that down to grams per watt for us haha.but back when I made these setups we were still getting 3500 a unit it's down to around 2500 now .
What I'm saying is unless someone shows me healthy side by side grows with test scores to back up the claims I'm still calling millarcky on the higher thc numbers with uv or cmh lamps.
Here's another kicker,I own both de hps and a decent par meter and these hid lamps still degrade at a very high rate. Cmh are similar as is mh lamps,what the manufacturer claims as usable life is fine if your ok with around 50% output at 6 months.my cobs are still around 95% 5 years later.

Yep without a doubt. The data is out there you just have to look. Here's a freebie.



I've grown outdoor, CFL, HPS, & E27 LED. The only thing that matters is how many photons are emmitted per area and what photons they are. How you create them is meaningless.

IR:
LST
Transpiration
Shade avoidance
Metabolism

IR doesn't have a direct pathway for THC increase like UVB, it's more of a secondary contributor for total plant health. Just look into it a little, there's lots of papers on the effect of IR and plants.

Lots of LED guys have cal Mg deficiencies, there's speculation that increased IR in HID is protecting against these symptoms growers see with IR-less LED. BTW COBs emit a decent amount of IR too. Everything emits IR, the hotter it is the more IR it emits. QBs have the least amount of IR and where most cal Mg issues seem to come from.

While your on that end of the spectrum look into the Emerson effect, and chlorophyll f. Also look into FR initiator lights.

UVA increases terpenes and flavonoids.

You can grow good herb with limited spectrum, though your plant can't reach it's full potential unless its stimulated by all the wavelengths it evolved under.

The leaves of those plants look frosty, but I don't see any actual buds? Way too much leaf and way too small buds. Let alone cola's.

JSheeze said:

HA! Look into LST and IR. Short answer, the plant responds to 700+

UVB? Ya, look into that too, short answer, more THC.

Idk why the lower buds seem to get so frosty, but here's some more shots (2-3wks before chop), I'm pretty happy with the results at $35 or $0.09/W.
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If you're getting frost like you've got, and without already adding UVB, then you've some good genetics (mine were barneys farm), but then Id also definitely suggest at least adding a $9 reptile bulb or 2 on top (there are several options). Trust me, you won't be disappointed, it's more potent.

The only thing I've said and will continue to say, is that cheap LED has the greatest (total yield)/(initial cost) ratio out of any source of artificial light. And that the 4yr+ wait to finally save $7/mo is not worth it for me.

Just curious, what is the price of your COB setup per 14oz worth of harvest, or a 2x4 area? Nice bud btw

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A skilled grower using my 'obsolete' 4 x CXB3590 (3500K CD bin) pulling an observed 224W from the wall will pull over a pound in that same space. Total cost in 2015 was just over $400.


So, more yield and better quality- I've run the A vs B testing myself- and yet you want to ignore the above concrete material benefits and focus on electrical consumption alone?

The only one missing something about LED is you, my friend.

ttystikk said:

A skilled grower using my 'obsolete' 4 x CXB3590 (3500K CD bin) pulling an observed 224W from the wall will pull over a pound in that same space. Total cost in 2015 was just over $400.
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Lol sounds good buddy, you should teach others how to pull 2lbs+ out of a 4x4 with under 450w *snicker*

ttystikk said:

and yet you want to ignore the above concrete material benefits and focus on electrical consumption alone?

The only one missing something about LED is you, my friend.

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?
You need to re-read what I've written. Im NOT concerned with electrical consumption.

You're not comprehending what I've said, but if you're happy then continue on, makes no difference to me. it would only cost you $20 to call me a liar. 2 $9 bulbs in a 2x4..

wietefras said:

The leaves of those plants look frosty, but I don't see any actual buds? Way too much leaf and way too small buds. Let alone cola's.

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Well they aren't hiding, they are right there lol, if you are referring to the most recent pics I posted, they were just the under buds but still very tasty! Its all preference, but when you SCROG as close as I did your bud count goes up but your wgt per bud goes down. Here's some shots of the chunkier buds up top...

Ended up averaging 1.75oz/ft2 or 14 total. That's good for me in a 2x4, especially at $35 initial cost. You're entitled to your opinion, though I would add if you think these are found wanting you're far in the minority, several others have already commented on the quality. Also, the amount of leaves is genetic and can be controlled for to a degree with spectrum, I could grow a different strain and swap out some 6500k for 3000k and satisfy your preferences while maintaining initial cost price.

All Im after is the cheapest widest spectrum light. I don't care about operating costs because electric is cheap for me. Ive shown some pics to demonstrate that good herb can be grown for dirt cheap. Are there better growers out there than me? by far. Are there more potent strains out there than what I grew? by far. Are there more efficient light sources? absolutely. Is there a cheaper initial cost wide spectrum light that can give the same yield result as the most efficient light? Not that I know of.

The plant doesn't' give a shit where the photons come from, only the uniform intensity, and wavelength matters.

What all you LED guys need to understand is that any light can make a plant grow. That $1000+ that you spend doesn't get you any more light or spectrum, its just the cost of the efficiency. it would take me 4.3yrs continuous operation to finally break even with a $400 setup vs a $35. I don't sell my herb, I smoke it.

Now, convenience and ease of use on the other hand is a completely different animal to me, and imo there is a threshold where convenience, results, and price meet. I may be there soon with some of these nicer lights with programmable timers, and tune-able spectrums, ect. I heard HLG is coming out with a new light (maybe its already out) called the trinity I think. Im guessing it will have 3 mono wavelengths to tune (trinity), depending on the wavelengths that might be my next purchase.

JSheeze said:

Lol sounds good buddy, you should teach others how to pull 2lbs+ out of a 4x4 with under 450w *snicker*


?
You need to re-read what I've written. Im NOT concerned with electrical consumption.

You're not comprehending what I've said, but if you're happy then continue on, makes no difference to me. it would only cost you $20 to call me a liar. 2 $9 bulbs in a 2x4..


Well they aren't hiding, they are right there lol, if you are referring to the most recent pics I posted, they were just the under buds but still very tasty! Its all preference, but when you SCROG as close as I did your bud count goes up but your wgt per bud goes down. Here's some shots of the chunkier buds up top...
View attachment 4345029
Ended up averaging 1.75oz/ft2 or 14 total. That's good for me in a 2x4, especially at $35 initial cost. You're entitled to your opinion, though I would add if you think these are found wanting you're far in the minority, several others have already commented on the quality. Also, the amount of leaves is genetic and can be controlled for to a degree with spectrum, I could grow a different strain and swap out some 6500k for 3000k and satisfy your preferences while maintaining initial cost price.

All Im after is the cheapest widest spectrum light. I don't care about operating costs because electric is cheap for me. Ive shown some pics to demonstrate that good herb can be grown for dirt cheap. Are there better growers out there than me? by far. Are there more potent strains out there than what I grew? by far. Are there more efficient light sources? absolutely. Is there a cheaper initial cost wide spectrum light that can give the same yield result as the most efficient light? Not that I know of.

The plant doesn't' give a shit where the photons come from, only the uniform intensity, and wavelength matters.

What all you LED guys need to understand is that any light can make a plant grow. That $1000+ that you spend doesn't get you any more light or spectrum, its just the cost of the efficiency. it would take me 4.3yrs continuous operation to finally break even with a $400 setup vs a $35. I don't sell my herb, I smoke it.

Now, convenience and ease of use on the other hand is a completely different animal to me, and imo there is a threshold where convenience, results, and price meet. I may be there soon with some of these nicer lights with programmable timers, and tune-able spectrums, ect. I heard HLG is coming out with a new light (maybe its already out) called the trinity I think. Im guessing it will have 3 mono wavelengths to tune (trinity), depending on the wavelengths that might be my next purchase.

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Tl;dr

You misrepresented my post; we were talking about 2x4.

I'm not going to tolerate someone who chops up my posts so he can lie about what I said.

I'm done here.

ttystikk said:

Tl;dr

You misrepresented my post; we were talking about 2x4.

I'm not going to tolerate someone who chops up my posts so he can lie about what I said.

I'm done here.

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lol ya, and this is what you said for a 2x4...

ttystikk said:

A skilled grower using my 'obsolete' 4 x CXB3590 (3500K CD bin) pulling an observed 224W from the wall will pull over a pound in that same space. Total cost in 2015 was just over $400.

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lmao Im not the liar here, you said it, not me.

if you had 1 tent or area that took up a 2x4 space and you harvested 1lb+ @224W, then 2 of those setups means double everything, ie 2lbs+ from 448W in a 4x4. A 4x4 yield figure is a more commonly used and understood metric, so I scaled your ridiculous 2x4 claim to a 4x4 figure so you and others could quantify your statement a little easier. These figures you posted are all with 2015 tech too remember, and not even the most efficient tech of its era, let alone now. Cxb3590 is maybe 85% of lm301b QB, and barely do I ever see QB hit 2.0gpw, and never 2lbs+ in a 4x4 at 2.0+gpw. (Maybe... if you had stacked levels essentially increasing your ft2, and then drove lots and lots of cxb3590 at low currents, then I could see 1lb+ per 8ft2 footprint at 224W, but looking at the pic you posted it doesn't look like you are implementing any technique to increase ft2 past the footprint of the area)

Yes, you can pull a pound from a 2x4 space. Just not with a street light!

ttystikk said:

Yes, you can pull a pound from a 2x4 space. Just not with a street light!

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Good god you're dumb. HID can't match efficiency but can definitely grow the same weight per area

JSheeze said:

Good god your dumb. HID cant match efficiency but can definitely grow the same weight per area

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*You're

ttystikk said:

*You're

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Hey Ttystikk. I am still waiting for you to answer my question about why I am a liar. Are you saying that it isn't true that you pimped out your girlfriend at a cheap Wyoming motel while you waited in the parking lot for her to have sex with a stranger to earn you money?

AMARE hands down. Sure, there will be fan boys of this n that but when it comes down to an honest answer, there u have.
Now someone will call me a shill or some shit but thats ok. Fact remains.
Not saying there's not other good ones out there.

Lol

How many umols for CXB 3590s would everyone suggest??? I just put in a few hundred in my room and am not sure the perfect umol amount:/

whats better bang for my buck? filling a room up with QBs purchased from Meijiu?

or would i get more bang for my buck going with Vero29s?

newguy41410 said:

whats better bang for my buck? filling a room up with QBs purchased from Meijiu?

or would i get more bang for my buck going with Vero29s?

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I bet you could use whatever device you used to post this and price things out for yourself.
Just sharing a crazy idea I had after reading your comment.


Edit: Meijiu QBs tho

JSheeze said:

Well they aren't hiding, they are right there lol

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Well it still doesn't look all that special. I guess the point is that your light is cheap?

Ended up averaging 1.75oz/ft2 or 14 total. That's good for me in a 2x4, especially at $35 initial cost.

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and then with led strip lights you could yield 20 total (or I can). That easily covers a bit of extra investment.

What all you LED guys need to understand is that any light can make a plant grow.

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Sounds more like you need to understand that. Leds offer more light from the same watts. Plus due to the lower temperature output, you can go higher in intensity and then yield more per m2. Or if you are limited on power you can also opt to cover a bigger grow area.

wietefras said:

Well it still doesn't look all that special. I guess the point is that your light is cheap?

and then with led strip lights you could yield 20 total (or I can). That easily covers a bit of extra investment.

Sounds more like you need to understand that. Leds offer more light from the same watts. Plus due to the lower temperature output, you can go higher in intensity and then yield more per m2. Or if you are limited on power you can also opt to cover a bigger grow area.

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Lol, the title of the thread is: "What LED is the best value in terms of cost/yield/service life?"
The fact that my yield to initial cost was so much larger than yours is kinda the point

Yield per area has nothing to do with effeciency of the light source!

You pull 20oz from 8ft2 of canopy? So 2.5lbs out of a conventional 4x4? Lol, sounds good.. I'm guessing you're going to tell me you do it at 2.0pgw next lol..

JSheeze said:

What all you LED guys need to understand is that any light can make a plant grow. That $1,000+ that you spend doesn't get you any more light or spectrum, its just the cost of the efficiency. it would take me 4.3yrs continuous operation to finally break even with a $400 setup vs a $35. I don't sell my herb, I smoke it.

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If you want to spend gobs, idc, means nothing to me lol, but the title of the thread was what was the cheapest initial cost vs yield and service life. The spendy lights don't grow the plants any better than a cheap light, case and point, and they would only save me $7/mo but only after 4+ yrs of continual use, and I don't even grow year round, so closer to 8yrs before breaking even!

I'm all for LED, thus why I'm using, duh, but I'm saying that if I wasn't able to buy cheap LED, that (HPS + UV fluoro) or CMH is the next best initial cost vs yield light selection, and with an even better spectrum than spendy LED. Its just a fact. Accept it or don't. Operating costs will be higher but there's a cost/benefit intersection that's finally met at some point in the future and right now it would take years to reach.

I said it before but here ya go again..

JSheeze said:

I think what's best is situational. Maybe some pay more than $0.10/kWh, so paying a bit more upfront can make a big difference down the road. Maybe you're just starting out so keeping initial costs low are important. Maybe head room is a factor, ect ect. For me I can't be bothered with anything else but the cheapest wide spectrum initial cost light, because my electric is cheap and the results are good.

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JSheeze said:

The light you choose is based on situational factors. There's pros and cons to all. In terms of initial cost to yield (of all artificial light types) I'd have to say cheap LED or maybe HPS.

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JSheeze said:

All Im after is the cheapest widest spectrum light. I don't care about operating costs because electric is cheap for me.

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JSheeze said:

The only thing I've said and will continue to say, is that cheap LED has the greatest (total yield)/(initial cost) ratio out of any source of artificial light. And that the 4yr+ wait to finally save $7/mo is not worth it for me.

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JSheeze said:

Is there a cheaper initial cost wide spectrum light that can give the same yield result as the most efficient light? Not that I know of.

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JSheeze said:

You pull 20oz from 8ft2 of canopy? So 2.5lbs out of a conventional 4x4? Lol, sounds good.. I'm guessing you're going to tell me you do it at 2.0pgw next lol..

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I dont know what is so impossible with this, weve been in this ballpark with 2700k 90cri strips. A bit more yield, and a bit more area so probably not quite there but defo in the ballpark. And that was using 12x 12$ strips on a hlg240 but with some side light from the adjacent trays.
Caveats: High yielding 11 week genetics and tons of gasheating/Co2.

G/w isnt a good measure anymore.

As for the initial question: id propose building a light based on bridgelux Vesta strips, 2 strips per alu u-channel, 12 strips to a 4x2 on a hlg240-48A.
Cheap, great distribution of light, excellent spectrum options and most importantly you can hang it very close to your cannopy. Hanging height is where you lose most of your watts.