Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

[Matt Rize]

15ml bioboost...? no thanks, stuffs too expensive and I'm too poor. I'll stick with my 6ml/gal

Anyways.. Hey Matt are you still using Mayan Madness? I'm looking into getting mycomaximum, I can't seem to find the Madness where I shop online, is it worth looking for elsewhere? I guess since mayan microz and mycromax. are made by the same people they might be the same thing?

HN and their confusing product names....

Mayan microzyme is the concentrated liquid inoculant. It has two species of bacteria. I am still using this, once in mid veg. Until it's gone, then it's out. Myco Madness is the mixed species inoculant, with cheap humic acid. It's designed for commercial nursery and greenhouse use, many of the species in it (like great white) do not associate with Cannabis (but they do work with conifers).

I'd suggest using the VAM from BioAg http://www.bioag.com/allotherstates.html, and using that with their Humic. The price is the least expensive ($50/lb) for the VAM (endo-myco). And the humic, which is separate, is the best source I've found.

 

[Matt Rize]

I understand that, was just lazy and didn't feel like typing the Bio in there. That worked out well...

Edit: to clarify, obviously since I believe them to be the same thing I'm comparing their "bio" lines.

biobizz and go are the same. biocanna has different ingredients ie vinasse and hops

 

[Matt Rize]

True, laziness pays off, aye
Since we're on the topic, I searched the stuff quickly and it looks pretty cool." Ingredients: Plant protein hydrolysate, rock phosphate and sea kelp" Sounds good to me, but I'm fairly certain the ingredients on the bioboost are different, although I've never been able to find a list of the bioboost ingredients (Rize alert). The price is good, Bioboost is $76 for 1L and the GH stuff is around $25 for a qt. Yet, the Bioboost has that oh so special OMRI listing... which jacks the price considerably.

Yeah, OMRI really is BS racket to make money and pose as a non-profit. But Bioboost is made of plant hormones and sugar mostly. They are using certain oligosaccharides possibly from cane sugar. The idea is that the hormones trigger a low stress response, without any physical stress (Low Stress Training for flowering).

http://www.igrowhydro.com/canna/BioBoost-MSDS.pdf
MSDS ->>>> NON TOXIC

Check this .pdf out. The second page or so is an article about boosters.

CannaResearch, CANNA’s research and development wing has developed two booster products, “BioBoost” and “CANNABOOST Accelerator”. These products are almost identical; BioBoost is organic with nothing inorganic added and CANNABOOST has an added component that is inorganic but pure. The use of this component in the Boost kicks it into high gear so that the results are rapid and big. BioBoost manifests itself in a slower manner, but it is the perfect answer for those wanting to stay 100% organic and compliments BIOCANNA’s BioVega, BioFlores
nutrients. BioBoost will work in all systems in the same way as CANNABOOST. Both products affect the plant's energy systems as described, and the organic component gives the part that would be nice.

A significant part of both products is the oligosaccharines that result from the breakdown of the bio components. These are basically small protein chains and cell wall chains that mimic enzymes, hormones and growth regulators. They stimulate key aspects in a plant such as its immune system (which turns on and acts as a preventer), alkaloid and essential oil production. They also influence protein synthesis allowing the cells to become denser, and strongly trigger the ‘organic’ taste in consumed plant components.

http://cannatalk.com/downloads/files/01_CannaTalk.pdf

any carbohydrate of from three to six units of simple sugars (monosaccharides). A large number of oligosaccharides have been prepared by partially breaking down more complex carbohydrates (polysaccharides). Most of the few naturally occurring oligosaccharides are found in plants. Raffinose, a trisaccharide found in many plants, consists of melibiose (galactose and glucose) and fructose. Another plant trisaccharide is gentianose. Maltotriose, a trisaccharide of glucose, occurs in some plants and in the blood of certain arthropods.

britannica

Fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS), which are found in many vegetables, consist of short chains of fructose molecules....
Not all natural oligosaccharides occur as components of glycoproteins or glycolipids. Some, such as the raffinose series, occur as storage or transport carbohydrates in plants. Others, such as maltodextrins or cellodextrins, result from the microbial breakdown of larger polysaccharides such as starch or cellulose.

wiki

BioBOOST is a yield increasing agent for all cultivation systems and can be applied in combination with all CANNA's nutritional lines and additives. BioBOOST is not a nutrient but a natural fermented plant extract with bloom stimulating characteristics that are also responsible for a more round flavor. BioBOOST was developed by Canna Research from plant extracts from tropical rainforests and is a true boost for plants. The bioactive substances result in a heightened metabolism that is exactly what the plant needs during the blooming period. The plants produce more fructose, become healthier and stronger and are less vulnerable to diseases and plagues.

sales pitch everywhere

After years of field studies in the primary rainforests of South Asia, Africa and Middle America, among other places, and research in CannaResearch's laboratories, CANNA is very proud to introduce BioBOOST!
BioBOOST is a yield-increasing agent for all cultivation systems and can be applied in combination with all of CANNA's nutritional lines and additives. BioBOOST is not a nutrient, but a natural fermented plant extract with bloom-stimulating characteristics that are also responsible for a fuller flavor.

from biocanna site.

 

[NightbirdX]

NB - i need a few answers already if you can..i havent read all the posts in this thread and maybe you can direct mHe to the following answers below if you have already posted them anyways:

1. What's your medium? Pro Mix
2. What size light are they under? 400w MH at the moment
3. How old (wut week-veg, right?) and tall (inches) are yo gurls? Week 2 day 9 since putting clones in dirt.


1/2 gallon bags?...i use 3 gallon 'rose buckets' they are called..you can ask for them at your hydro store..about 8" wide & they are square ..these buckets will give your gurls more room for their roots than a 1/2 gallon (i'm unfamiliar w/ these 1/2 bags you speak of...they sound like outdoor guerilla style gardening)....anyways....?

Sorry, I guess I should have clarified. They are in week 2 right now, day 9. I put my plants into a folded down 1 gallon plastic potting bag. I fold it down to give it a little more sturdiness when I pick it up. I normally start my plants under a 400w MH for 2 weeks and then throw them under a 1000w MH until time to flower then put them under 1000w HPS. I have them in bags just to start and will transplant to the finishing container, probably a 10gallon bucket in a couple days, let them recover from the shock and the throw them under the 1000's.

 

[Matt Rize]

NB - i need a few answers already if you can..i havent read all the posts in this thread and maybe you can direct mHe to the following answers below if you have already posted them anyways:

1. What's your medium?
2. What size light are they under?
3. How old (wut week-veg, right?) and tall (inches) are yo gurls?


1/2 gallon bags?...i use 3 gallon 'rose buckets' they are called..you can ask for them at your hydro store..about 8" wide & they are square ..these buckets will give your gurls more room for their roots than a 1/2 gallon (i'm unfamiliar w/ these 1/2 bags you speak of...they sound like outdoor guerilla style gardening)....anyways....

more roots=more fruits

u might wanna put them in bigger containers..

bu, first, regardless, i need to know the answers above before i can help further....okay

Did you attend kk's class?

 

[Wolverine97]

biobizz and go are the same. biocanna has different ingredients ie vinasse and hops

I've heard that about Bio Bizz before, but I've never been able to find an actual ingredient list for the Canna Bio Boost.

 

[beeznutz]

lemme ask u guys something, and pls do point me in the right direction for more indepth info......
jus wondering about nutes dosages, supps, micros, and ppm.....
for example, if ur nute says to feed at 10ml per gl and u also have to add things
like calcium, mg, etc., which adds ppm to ur mix, do u worry about the overall ppm being too high? or do u cut down on the main nutes [e.g., GO Grow] to make room for the rest of supps and micros [e.g., CaMg, Humic ...] to keep the ppm at a certain value ?
my shelf its getting full of nute+supps and not use to handle so many different kinds so i'm trying to get the basics down.

 

[Wolverine97]

lemme ask u guys something, and pls do point me in the right direction for more indepth info......
jus wondering about nutes dosages, supps, micros, and ppm.....
for example, if ur nute says to feed at 10ml per gl and u also have to add things
like calcium, mg, etc., which adds ppm to ur mix, do u worry about the overall ppm being too high? or do u cut down on the main nutes [e.g., GO Grow] to make room for the rest of supps and micros [e.g., CaMg, Humic ...] to keep the ppm at a certain value ?
my shelf its getting full of nute+supps and not use to handle so many different kinds so i'm trying to get the basics down.

This aint the thread for basics.

 

[Matt Rize]

lemme ask u guys something, and pls do point me in the right direction for more indepth info......
jus wondering about nutes dosages, supps, micros, and ppm.....
for example, if ur nute says to feed at 10ml per gl and u also have to add things
like calcium, mg, etc., which adds ppm to ur mix, do u worry about the overall ppm being too high? or do u cut down on the main nutes [e.g., GO Grow] to make room for the rest of supps and micros [e.g., CaMg, Humic ...] to keep the ppm at a certain value ?
my shelf its getting full of nute+supps and not use to handle so many different kinds so i'm trying to get the basics down.

The supplements do add to the overall PPM reading of the nutrient solution I water. But vegan organic nutes are pretty mild, so I don't mind the higher ppms. Canna in general is known to need extra calcium and magnesium. Some of the supplements barely affect PPM, examples are the BioBoost, Humic, hygrozyme, fulvic acids. Some supplements that do up the ppm are the calcium and magnesium. I'll try to lay out what ppm I run for the whole cycle. I've been keeping track.

You need to remember that your potting mix is most likely running out of substantial food sources by flower and the ppms will need to raise with that, then taper back down at the end.

 

[beeznutz]

This aint the thread for basics.

no need to be rude- if u have something to say try to make it positive, ehh?
reason i ask on here it's because i'm doing veganics, which is what this thread is about....

 

[beeznutz]

The supplements do add to the overall PPM reading of the nutrient solution I water. But vegan organic nutes are pretty mild, so I don't mind the higher ppms. Canna in general is known to need extra calcium and magnesium. Some of the supplements barely affect PPM, examples are the BioBoost, Humic, hygrozyme, fulvic acids. Some supplements that do up the ppm are the calcium and magnesium. I'll try to lay out what ppm I run for the whole cycle. I've been keeping track.

You need to remember that your potting mix is most likely running out of substantial food sources by flower and the ppms will need to raise with that, then taper back down at the end.

thx matt.....i believe i ran my nutes on low because of all the supps- basically i was trying to keep the ppm at a certain value but i needed to add supps like Ca and Mg [i'm using Botanicare Calplex&Huvega and they really add some substantial ppms] and ended up
low on the macros....and ofcourse, what i've thought to be nute burn ended up being nute defficiency

matt, pls do add ur ppm chart if u get a chance, it's always nice to see other ppls flow.
i'm still running the GO line but when i run out i'll be switching to biocanna.

 

[Wolverine97]

no need to be rude- if u have something to say try to make it positive, ehh?
reason i ask on here it's because i'm doing veganics, which is what this thread is about....

Ok. You're right, I get snippy at times.

 

[R3DROCk9]

hey guys..apologies for not being on for the past few days..personal life is kinda demanding righ now..

anyways, i will still try to help you as best i can nightbird...hopefully with all of us contributing we can help you succeed......bu i am still wondering HOW TALL ARE YOUR PLANTS (inches)? after they are about 8 inches tall i would start them on 8ml of vega, 8 ml of rhizotonic, and 10ml of cannazym..jus be sure not to put them under 1k for awhile, as this can burn their tender roots.

Did you attend kk's class?

no i dont kno anything about KK other than that HT article...also, i didnt know he was running CocoNot too...do you kno if he teaches on the weekends? if so, how much is one of his classes? i am in SoCal right now, bu would travel up north to attend...



p.s. also, i dont mix my CocoNot with anything...vermicrop suggests vermiblend with it, bu i opted not...i thought i remember sumthing in it being unveganic...didnt want to ruin the whole plant based organics with sum animal poo

 

[R3DROCk9]

I'd suggest using the VAM from BioAg http://www.bioag.com/allotherstates.html, and using that with their Humic. The price is the least expensive ($50/lb) for the VAM (endo-myco).

i'd have to disagree with this matt..i found the company that started the whole mycorrhizae phenomena...they went down to the rainforest in 1993, and have been trying to replant thousands of trees ever since...they are the ones that studied plants' rhizosphere and beneficials, and are the leaders in this field.. their website is reforest.com ...plus, they have started a gardening section at xtreme-gardening.com where you can buy 1 kilo (2.2 lbs) of mycorrhizae for $55...Great White buys from them, then redistributes to consumers at an inflated price. ..after Great white buys from them, they charge $40 for 4 ounces....xtreme gardening is known to pumpkin growers as the end all, be all (basically)...and they also have other products to help utilize the CO2 (cal-carb) and nitrogen (azos) in the air..

 

[Matt Rize]

i'd have to disagree with this matt..i found the company that started the whole mycorrhizae phenomena...they went down to the rainforest in 1993, and have been trying to replant thousands of trees ever since...they are the ones that studied plants' rhizosphere and beneficials, and are the leaders in this field.. their website is reforest.com ...plus, they have started a gardening section at xtreme-gardening.com where you can buy 1 kilo (2.2 lbs) of mycorrhizae for $55...Great White buys from them, then redistributes to consumers at an inflated price. ..after Great white buys from them, they charge $40 for 4 ounces....xtreme gardening is known to pumpkin growers as the end all, be all (basically)...and they also have other products to help utilize the CO2 (cal-carb) and nitrogen (azos) in the air..

That's a fair argument. Bioag has the best customer service of any company I've ever worked with. That goes a long way with me.

 

[Wolverine97]

That's a fair argument. Bioag has the best customer service of any company I've ever worked with. That goes a long way with me.

I will say that I'm seriously impressed with the results I'm seeing so far using the Xtreme Gardening Mykos and Azos. The growth rates that I'm getting now are scary good, I've got the thickest stems I've ever had and they're flowering like they're possessed. Very happy with them so far, and I've played around with a lot of different bennies in my day.

 

[upthearsenal]

Well, you three are making this purchase of mine more difficult... lol... So Matt, are you using the VAM-Endo? What size did you get, how big is it? I'm just wondering what 100g of this stuff would look like..

The extreme-gardening stuff looks great, props to both of you I had never heard of this stuff, but I'm confused, if I get only ONE which should it be? The cal-carb and azos look really cool, but should I just go with the Mykos WP?

 

[Matt Rize]

Well, you three are making this purchase of mine more difficult... lol... So Matt, are you using the VAM-Endo? What size did you get, how big is it? I'm just wondering what 100g of this stuff would look like..

The extreme-gardening stuff looks great, props to both of you I had never heard of this stuff, but I'm confused, if I get only ONE which should it be? The cal-carb and azos look really cool, but should I just go with the Mykos WP?

As far as I can tell, you start with the Mykos, then use the cal-carb and azos in mid veg.

I use the VAM, it's something that I mix in with my potting soil. Right now I'm about to transplant into:
Bioterra Plus
Big N Chunky Perlite
Local compost with rice hulls
Alaskan Humisoil
Epsom Salt
Dolomite Lime
BioAg VAM

My other inoculants are teas. This is the smallest size bag of inoculant they sell. And it's lasting forever because it's not designed to be added to your fertigation solution.

 

[S.V.T.]

Well, you three are making this purchase of mine more difficult... lol... So Matt, are you using the VAM-Endo? What size did you get, how big is it? I'm just wondering what 100g of this stuff would look like..

The extreme-gardening stuff looks great, props to both of you I had never heard of this stuff, but I'm confused, if I get only ONE which should it be? The cal-carb and azos look really cool, but should I just go with the Mykos WP?

Man, I've been using the Mykos for the last 6 month's an the results are AWESOME. I mix it in with my soil along with some stuff from vital earth called glacial rock. The glacial rock adds great trace elements and feeds the soil/mykos. I top dress every 4 weeks with the glacial rock. Man, this is the ticket. check out the plants in my journal. I use this combo with them and they are ripping. feed the soil.

 

[Wolverine97]

As far as I can tell, you start with the Mykos, then use the cal-carb and azos in mid veg.

I use the VAM, it's something that I mix in with my potting soil. Right now I'm about to transplant into:
Bioterra Plus
Big N Chunky Perlite
Local compost with rice hulls
Alaskan Humisoil
Epsom Salt
Dolomite Lime
BioAg VAM

My other inoculants are teas. This is the smallest size bag of inoculant they sell. And it's lasting forever because it's not designed to be added to your fertigation solution.

I've been using the Azos as an initial innoculant in my soil when I transplant, and I really like the stuff. The Mykos is freaking great, so far I like it much better than Great White or Myco Madness even though it's only one species. I still add some Myco Madness for the trichoderma it contains, but I'm a fan of Xtreme for sure. I haven't tried the CalCarb yet, even though I've got a pound of it. I just don't need it, and they were all free testers from my local hydro guy. Love that guy.