Amnesty Bill Pitched as Jobs and growth?? LOL dont make me laugh so hard.

ChesusRice said:
So if they were legal. What advantages would they have?
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You mean if they had gone through the proper channels to legally enter the country?
They would not take a job for 1/2 of the going pay rate.

The irony is, all these contractors who jumped on the illegal train, are almost all completely out of business.
They created their own competition. Prices dropped so hard that only the illegals could continue doing the work.
Now you have a lot of really badly built buildings with every possibly corner cut. In another 20-30 years the real issues will start coming to the forefront.
 
althor said:
Now you have a lot of really badly built buildings with every possibly corner cut. In another 20-30 years the real issues will start coming to the forefront.
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Maybe that's true in this case, but I talk to contractors all the time and they laud the talents and work ethic of the illegals they hire. No, I didn't fall down, crack my head and change my position on illegal aliens. But, these folks are some of the hardest working, skilled individuals I've ever met. While I'm sure there are exceptions, the value of work for the dollar to the employer isn't a winning argument against illegal workers.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
Maybe that's true in this case, but I talk to contractors all the time and they laud the talents and work ethic of the illegals they hire. No, I didn't fall down, crack my head and change my position on illegal aliens. But, these folks are some of the hardest working, skilled individuals I've ever met. While I'm sure there are exceptions, the value of work for the dollar to the employer isn't a winning argument against illegal workers.
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Interesting. What I see with my own eyes and hear from contractors all the time is the incredible work ethic but a lot like pack mules.
They will work all day long, but as far as quality, it is generally lacking.

The difference between an illegal laborer and an illegal bricklayer, a bricklayer had enough money to buy a trowel and a level, a laborer could only afford a shovel.

They have no apprenticeships at all. So how could someone who has never done the work supposed to show up and do good work? They can't but since they are willing to do it for half-price, allowances are made.

They are good workers, but skilled is certainly not in the equation.
 
althor said:
Interesting. What I see with my own eyes and hear from contractors all the time is the incredible work ethic but a lot like pack mules.
They will work all day long, but as far as quality, it is generally lacking.

The difference between an illegal laborer and an illegal bricklayer, a bricklayer had enough money to buy a trowel and a level, a laborer could only afford a shovel.

They have no apprenticeships at all. So how could someone who has never done the work supposed to show up and do good work? They can't but since they are willing to do it for half-price, allowances are made.

They are good workers, but skilled is certainly not in the equation.
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too true.

one of my brothers was a tile setter, he does fine work, but now he works in a "service industry" job at half the rate he made as a tile setter, and all the new construction has shit tile work.

lefties dont think an illegal can take their jobs, just like carpenters, masons, concrete layers, truck drivers, and all manner of tradesmen believed 20 years ago.

and when manufacturing or IT jobs get shipped off to india or china, the left blames the company for moving rather than blaming the government who created the atmosphere which necessitated that move to cheaper, less regulated shores.

lefties are dissociative narcissists.
 
althor said:
Interesting. What I see with my own eyes and hear from contractors all the time is the incredible work ethic but a lot like pack mules.
They will work all day long, but as far as quality, it is generally lacking.

The difference between an illegal laborer and an illegal bricklayer, a bricklayer had enough money to buy a trowel and a level, a laborer could only afford a shovel.

They have no apprenticeships at all. So how could someone who has never done the work supposed to show up and do good work? They can't but since they are willing to do it for half-price, allowances are made.

They are good workers, but skilled is certainly not in the equation.
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1 they actually show up for work
2 Just becuase they are brown doesnt mean they are stupid. Anyone can pick up a trade with OJT
 
ChesusRice said:
Same web site
Exports in the United States increased to 194857 USD Million in November of 2013 from 193136 USD Million in October of 2013. Exports in the United States is reported by the U.S. Census Bureau. Exports in the United States averaged 105518.32 USD Million from 1992 until 2013, reaching an all time high of 194857 USD Million in November of 2013 and a record low of 50044 USD Million in May of 1992. United States is the world's third largest exporter. Main exports are: Industrial Supplies (34 percent of total exports) and Capital Goods (33 percent). Foods, feeds, and beverages account for 9 percent; Automotive vehicles, parts, and engines for another 9 percent and Consumer goods for 12 percent. Main exports partners are: Canada (19 percent of total exports), European Union (17 percent), Mexico (14 percent), China (7 percent) and Japan (5 percent). This page contains - United States Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. 2014-02-01
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports
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so i suppose you think that disproves ND's assertion that the US export levels are low as fuck.

US exports as % of GDP: 13.5%

in the G20, only brazil is lower.

http://www.quandl.com/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-all-countries

meanwhile our imports are climbing

the fucked up part is all the tables include "services" exports, which skews the data out of control because it includes banking, insurance and other moneyfingering NON PRODUCTIVE "imports and exports"

you cant find the data on exports and imports of "Goods" without the bullshit of "services" tacked on.

only an economist can believe that real tangible assets being imported or exported are the same as electronic transfers of stocks and fiat currency.

Protip: one requires productive work to produce and move, the other is imaginary.
 
althor said:
My first "real" job was with my father-in-law who owned a masonry company.
I started out as a laborer. After a few years of laboring I started up my apprenticeship.
Work was really busy throughout our area. A masonry apprenticeship is a 4 year apprenticeship.
Around my 2nd year of my apprenticeship, the illegals started moving in, I suppose the news of work had finally reached them.
My 3rd year apprenticeship I was making 23.78 an hour. I finished up my 4th year apprenticeship and the pay had dropped down to 18 an hour. I started working as a full-fledge Bricklayer at 16 an hour. Within 2 years the average pay was 14 an hour.

Hey thanks illegals for coming in and DESTROYING my trade.

As far as I am concerned, all illegals can fall over and die a horrible death and I would watch gleefully.
I will oppose amnesty for the roach eating bastards til my last breath.
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had no idea althor was a racist little prick too. never would have suspected that for a second.
 
Dr Kynes said:
too true.

one of my brothers was a tile setter, he does fine work, but now he works in a "service industry" job at half the rate he made as a tile setter, and all the new construction has shit tile work.

lefties dont think an illegal can take their jobs, just like carpenters, masons, concrete layers, truck drivers, and all manner of tradesmen believed 20 years ago.

and when manufacturing or IT jobs get shipped off to india or china, the left blames the company for moving rather than blaming the government who created the atmosphere which necessitated that move to cheaper, less regulated shores.

lefties are dissociative narcissists.
Click to expand...

the right loves to whine and cry and bitch and moan endlessly.

here's an idea: don't be such a shitty worker and someone that doesn't even speak english won't take your job.

if you put all the effort into your trade that you do into whining and racism, you wouldn't have this problem.

my dad down in phoenix is never hurting for work, but his shit is top notch work and is priced accordingly.
 

Oops! You're racist.

I was listening to Alan Colmes' radio show the other night because it's the only thing on between Phil Hendrie and Tom Leykis. Colmes was out for the evening, so a guest host was conducting an interview with the lawyer filing a class action law suit against WalMart--the world's largest retailer--alleging that WalMart cheated thousands of immigrant janitors out of wages. The host argued that the janitors didn't deserve to get paid the same wage as Americans because they were illegal immigrants and shouldn't have been in America in the first place.

My bullshit detector went off, so I called into the show to slam him in the face with the sledge hammer of fallacy. The conversation went something like this:
[TABLE="class: t1"]
[TR]
[TD]Host[/TD]
[TD]"Hello, you're on the air."[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Me[/TD]
[TD]"Yes, I'm calling to side with the lawyer."[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Host[/TD]
[TD]"Why?"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Me[/TD]
[TD]"Because saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place."[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Host[/TD]
[TD](pause)"Yeah... that's a good point."
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​
He then hung up on me and proceeded to repeat his argument verbatim, even though I handed him a plate full of his ass with all the trimmings, only this time he added something to the effect of "well these immigrants are coming to America and taking jobs away from Americans." What?
News flash: immigrants aren't taking anything from Americans. Companies like WalMart are giving jobs to them illegally. If WalMart paid a company to hire immigrants to do the job over Americans then there's probably a good reason for it. I'm sick and tired of lazy gluttonous Americans bitching about immigrants "taking" our jobs. It's not like they can literally come to America, ambush us in the parking lot and take our jobs.
immigrant.gif

If you lose your job to an immigrant, it's probably because he or she was willing to work harder for less money. Don't want to pay them full wages? Then don't hire them. If they do equal work, then they deserve equal pay. It's just that simple, and I'm not going to sit back like every other racist piece of shit bitching about having to work harder because there's a little competition for my job, immigrant or otherwise. I know I can do my job better than anyone, and if an immigrant thinks he can do a better job than I can, I welcome him to try. What kind of chicken shit pussy is afraid of competition? Can't get a job because you lost out to an immigrant? Well TOUGH SHIT. Nobody wants to pay you for your half-assed work if someone else can do it better. That's what America is all about. Our president may be a moron, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let any more jackasses sully the reputation of hard working Americans who are willing to work just as hard as anyone else with or without competition. If you can't cut it, then the people with money will pay it to someone else who can. Maybe if all you people bitching weren't such lazy, pathetic, blood sucking leeches, you'd get off of your dead ass and work HARDER to do a better job. Get some balls people. If you're too chicken shit and you can't cut it, then maybe it's you who doesn't deserve to live in America. Not the immigrants.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart
 
UncleBuck said:
the right loves to whine and cry and bitch and moan endlessly.

here's an idea: don't be such a shitty worker and someone that doesn't even speak english won't take your job.

if you put all the effort into your trade that you do into whining and racism, you wouldn't have this problem.

my dad down in phoenix is never hurting for work, but his shit is top notch work and is priced accordingly.
Click to expand...

Your dad creates high quality shit??

Must be an improvement after you...
 
UncleBuck said:
had no idea althor was a racist little prick too. never would have suspected that for a second.
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Oh wow, now illegals are a race?
I have no problem with their races. I have problems with illegals because of the reasons I pointed out. Legal immigrants go through quite a lot to become legal immigrants and do not come to the USA to work at 1/2 rates. I have traveled for work. I don't like it and that is just in different cities, not an entirely different country. I have nothing but respect for someone who is willing to not only leave their familiar city, but their entire country to go some where to earn a living. There are proper ways to do it though and if your actions are going to completely upturn an entire trade/trades in local areas, then it is entirely wrong.
 
racism was the wrong word, i apologize.

but the sentiment was oddly unsettling and completely unexpected coming from you. as much as i may disagree with you, i never thought you had it in you.
 
althor said:
Oh wow, now illegals are a race?
I have no problem with their races. I have problems with illegals because of the reasons I pointed out. Legal immigrants go through quite a lot to become legal immigrants and do not come to the USA to work at 1/2 rates. I have traveled for work. I don't like it and that is just in different cities, not an entirely different country. I have nothing but respect for someone who is willing to not only leave their familiar city, but their entire country to go some where to earn a living. There are proper ways to do it though and if your actions are going to completely upturn an entire trade/trades in local areas, then it is entirely wrong.
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Yeah Illegal is a race.
Because to legally immigrate for a Mexican the average time is 2 decades and for a European
8 months

if they could come here legally

Dont you fucking think they would?
And the FACT is

You dont want them here legally or not
 
ChesusRice said:
Yeah Illegal is a race.
Because to legally immigrate for a Mexican the average time is 2 decades and for a European
8 months

if they could come here legally

Dont you fucking think they would?
And the FACT is

You dont want them here legally or not
Click to expand...

Broken logic.
 
ChesusRice said:
1 they actually show up for work
2 Just becuase they are brown doesnt mean they are stupid. Anyone can pick up a trade with OJT
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Stupid has nothing at all to do with it and certainly not the color of their skin.

Ok, so you pick up on the job training, in the meantime (while you are lying about your skill level) you are building a wall without things such as expansion joints, vertical rebar, horizontal rebar, corner rebar, that oh, I cant see it from the outside so I didn't know it needed it kind of things. Probably wont need it really, unless there is an earthquake. When that happens, well, don't be inside the building.

When I entered the masonry trade I really had an elitist attitude about it. I was an honor student in high school, kicking ass in college, gf got pregnant, felt I had to do what a man does. Ended up married with a baby and a full time job. I thought laying brick would be mind-numbing at best. What I found out was you need every bit of 4 years apprenticeship under a journeyman bricklayer to learn everything you need to know to do it. Even then you are still learning years later. What happened in many cases were group hirings. Illegals skip that training or get a few months at best, then branch out and claim to be a journeyman. There are bricklayers in other countries, don't get me wrong. But, there are huge differences, including material. A block/brick in (let's say) Mexico is not the same as a block/brick in USA. They are made from different materials and layed different ways.
Anyway, stupid has nothing to do with it. In many cases, illegals are go-getters but they skip a lot of steps and never really learn their crafts. Why spend 4 years as an apprentice when they are hoping they can make enough money to go home in not much longer time than that?
 
ChesusRice said:
Yeah Illegal is a race.
Because to legally immigrate for a Mexican the average time is 2 decades and for a European
8 months

if they could come here legally

Dont you fucking think they would?
And the FACT is

You dont want them here legally or not
Click to expand...

Ok, I am done with this conversation. I will say once again, I respect a person willing to travel for their work. I have traveled and my father actually spent most of his life working for a company called CBI (Chicago Bridge and Iron) and he worked all over the world. It is a very hard life for the person away from home. But, you do it legally and that opens the doors. When you are underground you screw yourself and those around you.

Have fun twisting things however you like.
 
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